What We'd Do Differently Starting Over in Table Tennis

Jeff (00:00) what do beginners practice badly? Alois (00:01) I think beginners if left to their own devices might actually practice better than than Jeff (00:08) Ooh. Alois (00:10) if they get into a trained situation Jeff (00:25) Hello and welcome to the Ask the Coach Show. I'm Jeff Plumb and with me as always is Super Coach Alois Rosario. Welcome Alois. Alois (00:33) Thank you, Jeff, and nice to be back. Jeff (00:36) Yes, certainly is. And today, Alois, we've got a incredible show. Imagine this, right? Imagine everything you know about table tennis disappears tomorrow and you have to start again. What would you do differently? Alois (00:52) it's really interesting, isn't it? Because we're so ingrained with things that we know. I was Jeff (00:59) Mm-hmm. Alois (01:00) I was just today I was talking about, you know, just coaching some new players that are a bit older, but Jeff (01:08) Yeah. Alois (01:08) just thinking about. how little time they've actually had in the sport and just understanding how little time they've had in the sport. And sometimes it's hard to relate to when you've been in the sport for so long and been doing things for so long. You know, just understanding what backspin does and what topspin does and how that, what's that effect on your back. It's... Jeff (01:34) Yeah, exactly. So because you've had fifty plus years of experience with this, you you understand that Alois (01:41) I've had a few. I've had a few. Jeff (01:46) but yeah, if you had to start again, is there is there something you do differently or we just still just learn the basic strokes and and proceed from there? Alois (01:57) Yeah, I think I would approach it really differently. And it's born out in how would I now teach a new player as well? You know, like I think I would go. Jeff (02:10) So what would you have done twenty years ago and and what would you do differently now? Alois (02:16) 20 years ago, I would have taught the strokes really strongly. I would have really focused in on individual strokes, learning the forehand really well, learning the backhand really well, learning the push on the forehand, learning the push on the backhand, all very individually. would have learned those strokes individually and got... Jeff (02:40) Which sounds sensible, I mean you need to be able to play all of those. Alois (02:46) I think that my biggest shift now is about those strokes relating to each other and also coming at each stroke from a different position. So when we learn a forehand in 20 years ago, it was play a forehand, come back to the the start position of your forehand and play another forehand. But the real difference or change in my mindset, I think is just about where does that stroke actually start from? So it doesn't actually start from here. It starts from the end of your previous stroke. So it's how do you link that together? How do you link where you finished that previous stroke to the start of the next stroke? Jeff (03:40) Mm, and this reminds me, Alice, you've talked a lot about warming up. Like traditionally in table tennis we warm up forehand to forehand, forehand to forehand, and then we switch backhand to backhand, but you've been saying no, we should probably just be hitting the ball anywhere in our warm up and that kind of links into what you're saying here. Alois (03:57) Yeah, exactly. it's with the warm up. It's with everything. It's how do we link our strokes better rather than just thinking about our strokes as individual strokes? And I think, you know, what we need to really focus on is thinking about how do we play a game? A game Jeff (04:19) Mm. Alois (04:20) isn't about playing forehand strokes or it isn't about playing backhand strokes. It's about How we get from one stroke to the other. How do we get from the serve position to the next position to the next position to be able to win a rally. Jeff (04:38) Mm, that's interesting 'cause you're not just talking about s like just forehands and backhands there. Now you're starting to bring in the serve and footwork as well. Alois (04:48) Yes. So it's footwork, it's balance, it's recovery. It's just I think it's putting the putting the notes together as a song rather than just playing, learning how to play a note. Like in when when you play the guitar, Jeff, don't. Jeff (05:08) and do I play it well? No. Alois (05:10) Exactly. But but you don't sit there and play the G. endlessly. Jeff (05:18) No. Alois (05:19) You know, you would learn how to play, Jeff (05:21) Switch to a decord. Alois (05:23) yeah, from a G to a D to a whatever, to a Jeff (05:27) To a sea. Alois (05:29) C to start to sing Do Re Mi. Jeff (05:34) It's interesting too 'cause I've I've heard a lot of complaints about music being taught too rigidly and not being taught the whole it's kinda s almost sounds like what you're talking about here. People get bored Alois (05:47) Yeah. Jeff (05:47) with that having to learn note by note or something and they prefer to learn a song. I wanna I don't know enough about Alois (05:52) Yeah, and I doubt. Jeff (05:53) music, but maybe there's some similarities there. Alois (05:57) Yeah, and I don't know enough about music, like, is it learning a scale compared to is it learning how to play a song as well? Like, you know, just apart from Jeff (06:05) Mm. Alois (06:05) playing, you know, I did a little bit of piano in my very, very young days. Jeff (06:10) There you go. Alois (06:11) You know, is it just about playing the C or is it playing that scale Jeff (06:18) The whole song. Alois (06:19) or is it about playing the whole song? I think Jeff (06:22) Mm. Alois (06:22) it's about how do you play the whole song? How do you play a game of table tennis, not how do you play a stroke and. Jeff (06:32) Yes. But I think you'd agree also so yes, you've got to kind of that should be your focus too, shouldn't it? But then I guess sometimes there's a place for learning scales still, and so there's still a place for learning how to play a forehand correctly still? Alois (06:46) Yes, yes, correctly is always a really difficult word now for me. because. Jeff (06:52) Yeah. What does that mean? Alois (06:55) And, know, we have talked about this earlier and, know, the great Ross Pinder person, the skill acquisition or learning design person that I've had a lot to do with and it's helped me a lot with my learning. You know, one day for the first time he saw an international competition live, he he he came up up to me and sidled up and he said, what is this forehand you speak of? Because what he was seeing was a hundred different forehands. was one of the Chinese national team players at an Australian Open event. And he said, what is this forehand you've been speaking of? Because he was seeing 50 different forehands being played, Jeff (07:39) Interesting. Alois (07:41) not one forehand. Jeff (07:44) And I wonder if that's just an experience thing too, because and like if you learn the forehand just like ball after ball after ball, do you not learn how to do those variations? Or do you only learn them in the game? What comes first? Is it a chicken and an egg? Should you be practicing different variations from day Or yeah, how do what what do you think? Alois (08:06) Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, that's that's the endless question, isn't it? You know, I think there's a place to learn how to be able to hit a ball and some basics of of, know, how do you how do you get the ball to start rotating forward and how do you get that that top spin on the ball or the arc on the ball? But then it's it's about how do you also deal with each single situation that that arises? So Jeff (08:32) Mm. Alois (08:33) You know, how often do we practice this? But it's from a very, very, stayed type of, setup rather than dynamic setup, which is what actually happens in a match. Jeff (08:50) Yeah, interesting. So, I mean, you've kind of answered this in a little way, but w what things seemed important to you while learning but probably you spent too much time on. So yeah, so are there things that like we we should spend less time on when we're training and things we should spend more time on? Alois (09:13) Yeah, well, I and I can relate really well to this because I was an excellent trainer and I could do I could do drills really, really well. And, know, this is this is getting back to our music analogy. Like I could play scales magnificently. I could Jeff (09:31) Yeah. Alois (09:32) I could do one one footwork well. I could do, you know, backhand, forehand, forehand, well, I could do Falkenberg, whatever that is, could do any pattern really, really nicely, but then throw me into a game situation and give me decisions to make and patterns I haven't seen before, and suddenly everything became really difficult. Jeff (10:03) Mm. Okay, so so what would you do differently if you if you could go back and do that again? Alois (10:10) I would start to introduce more decision making in my training. And Jeff (10:21) Yeah. Alois (10:21) I deliberately shied away from it in training because it didn't feel good to me because it Jeff (10:28) Mm. Alois (10:29) to more mistakes and it does. And Jeff (10:34) Yeah. Alois (10:34) so I steered away from it. I would I don't know whether I could or would, I would try to immerse myself in those mistakes a little bit more in the more difficult training because that's where we need to, that's the level we need to be practicing at. That's the difficulty. Jeff (10:58) Mm. So embrace the mistakes more, have more decisions made. So don't always have the ball coming to where you know it's going. yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Alois (11:08) Yeah. Yeah. And you can scale it up. mean, you if you want to start by doing a little bit of one backhand, one forehand or one, you know, where you know where the ball is, but then start to introduce a decision somewhere so that it's Jeff (11:26) Okay. Alois (11:26) not 10 minutes of doing one backhand, one forehand where you know where the ball is, where You feel great. You're hitting every single ball on the table. your friend walks in and thinks, wow, like that looks fantastic. You know, what a great table tennis player. Jeff (11:48) Yeah. Alois (11:49) But it's really it's almost like a demonstration or a show rather Jeff (11:56) Yes. Alois (11:56) than a game or a match. Jeff (12:00) Yeah. And and you talked about this in the last episode. In some ways, what you want to do is bring your training to be more like a match, because that's what you're training for. Alois (12:13) Exactly. So we've got to go back to what's our purpose. Our purpose for most of us is to be able to play better in a match situation. So Jeff (12:24) Yeah. Alois (12:25) let's go back to that and do all of our training based on that rather than Jeff (12:31) In Alois (12:32) our training based on looking good in training. Jeff (12:35) Yeah. So so having said that, so if you are a beginner, how quickly should you get involved in matches at a club and that should you focus on your technique first until you get to a certain level or should you jump right in? Alois (12:51) I'd say jump right in and I'd really encourage all of our listeners as well to to join a club. often get messages and emails and things from you out there and saying, I'm just getting better. And when I'm better, I'll go and join a club. would say it's the other way around. I would say get in there. join a club and then start to think about getting better with your strokes or getting better with whatever it is. until you actually experience playing against people and what that feels like in a match situation, I think it's difficult. And I think, Jeff, you probably had that experience for yourself. Jeff (13:41) Yeah, for sure. Like, when you go to a club, it's such a different experience. playing against all these players that can spin the ball and you're like, what is going on here? Like, it's just Alois (13:52) Yeah. Jeff (13:53) mind blowing from playing just amongst your friends, you know, after school and then going to a club, the the spin was for me the thing that just blew my mind. It was just incredible. And still now, if I Alois (14:06) Yes. Jeff (14:07) go to someone who's not really played at a club before and I give them a spin serve, they just cannot believe what is happening. It's like what is going on? So you've kind of Alois (14:14) Yes. Yeah, so. Jeff (14:16) really got to get to a club, get involved and just see the different ways people play the game. Alois (14:21) Yeah, so what was the biggest impact that you, that it had on you when you saw that happening in the club situation? Jeff (14:35) Yeah, I mean I was just inspired by it. Firstly the the serves, like just how do you control that? How do you get that back? But also the attacking forehands, like the way the ball just dipped onto the table. I'm like, wow, if I could hit the ball that hard Alois (14:48) you Jeff (14:49) and still get it on the table, I could be really good. You Alois (14:52) Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it influenced you as far as the strokes that you saw that you could be capable of. Jeff (15:04) Yeah, because before that I I was kinda like you try and hit the ball hard but you're still trying to get the ball on the table and it just opened up a world of possibilities about how good you could become. Yeah. Alois (15:17) Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's that's good. Jeff (15:19) So I I think there's just like you you feel like there's a level here, but when you if you don't go to a club suddenly you see there's like you you're just the tip of the iceberg what you're thinking of, and then you see there's this much bigger world out there and there's so much more room Alois (15:32) Yeah. Yeah. Jeff (15:34) for improvement. Alois (15:35) Yeah. that's why I'm going back to what we talking about before. Like, I think that's why it's really critical to as a first step to go and join a club and just see actually what this game is about, because the longer Jeff (15:51) Yeah. Alois (15:52) you stay in your garage or in your workplace even, or in, you know, playing against your mate and you're both making the same errors and you might Jeff (16:04) Yeah. Alois (16:05) even see some top table tennis on telly somewhere or on some sort of internet thing, Jeff (16:16) Yep. YouTube or Alois (16:19) YouTube thing somewhere and see, wow, that's amazing. But until you try and hit that back, Jeff (16:30) Yeah. Alois (16:30) You don't really understand and you don't really see the benefits of it. So, yeah. Jeff (16:35) Yeah, it it's definitely different having someone serve a ball to you with heavy spin or s you know, hit a strong forehand past you. Yeah, defin definitely you notice it when you're at the other end of the table a lot more than watching it on Alois (16:47) Yeah, yeah. Jeff (16:48) TV. Alois (16:48) Yeah, exactly. Exactly. TV. Does anyone watch TV anymore? Jeff (16:54) no. Well may only for streaming, yeah. what do beginners practice badly? Is there anything beginners practice badly? Alois (17:07) I think beginners if left to their own devices might actually practice better than than Jeff (17:13) Ooh. Alois (17:15) if they get into a trained situation sometimes because so one of the things that I always see And it's Jeff (17:26) Mm. Alois (17:27) really easy to notice a player that's been trained compared to a player that has developed more naturally because they have those habits of going back to a unrealistic starting position. And as soon as the ball comes to a different position, it's almost like it's a, hang on. Or they or they just catch the ball and throw it back and say, no, that's in the wrong spot. So I think Jeff (18:01) Yep. Alois (18:01) it's I think it's just that that that freedom of movement, but especially between your backhand and forehand, I think that's where you see it the most. It's just that freedom of movement between your backhand and forehand is really important rather than. practicing those individual strokes and probably going back to where we started here, but rather than practicing those individual strokes and knowing where the ball comes. So. Jeff (18:35) And so beginners will often just go out and just play a rally and and won't hit it anywhere. Alois (18:38) Yes. Jeff (18:39) So so you think that might be a i a better way to practice in some some regards, yeah. Alois (18:44) Yeah, in some in some regards, the way they go wrong, where the where the limitation is there is then they don't understand what they're trying to do with the ball. You know, what, like, are they trying to get that arc on the ball? Are they trying to get that top spin? Are they are they trying to get more top spin or more backspin? Or and how do it? How do they how do they do that? I think Jeff (19:07) Yeah. Alois (19:08) they're they're the things that you really start to develop as you start to think about your game a little bit more. Jeff (19:15) Okay. So then how important is footwork? So like when should that be introduced and what should a beginner Alois (19:23) Mm-hmm. Jeff (19:24) actually practice in in terms of footwork? Alois (19:27) Yeah, I think going back to the idea of being in a good position to be able to hit the stroke that you want to hit. So Jeff (19:38) Mm-hmm. Alois (19:38) that's that's what footwork really is. It's it's about getting yourself balanced to be able to play that stroke. So if I'm trying to play a backhand and and I'm over here, then. my footwork is no good because I haven't been able to get myself to a better position to be able to play a more effective stroke. yeah, so I think that can be incorporated pretty early, but I think it can also just be brought in quite naturally as you start to Jeff (20:15) Mm. Alois (20:16) give these players some decisions to make about where the ball's coming. So naturally now, They need to move over to that position to be able to play that next ball well rather than, hang on, the ball's over there and I'm unbalanced and stretched. So, yeah. Jeff (20:34) Yep. Yep. And do you find people learn footwork quite naturally or it's better to like teach like a shuffle step or a crossover step or or is it just a matter of, yeah, put the ball somewhere different and and they'll naturally move into position? Alois (20:50) I think you can start to do that. You might need to give them some cues as to what the most efficient movement is, but they Jeff (21:00) Yeah. Alois (21:01) might also pick that up. So if you start putting the ball here and one to each side and they're running over here and then running over there, they'll start to work out that that's not efficient. being more lateral and moving more laterally and facing the table will... eventually be more effective. But again, that's a process that you can start to develop. But I think all of these things, and we've talked a lot about some technical stuff here, and I've almost said, forget about the technical. I think it's important to understand what you're trying to do with your technique, with your skill. And that's why I think just understanding those skills and probably an efficient way to start to do them is important as well. Jeff (22:01) So you think it's still still like important to to remember with your Alois (22:04) you Jeff (22:04) forehand to try and finish in a certain position potentially? Alois (22:09) I think that's a good internal cue that you can start with. Yes, because I think that gives you just the basics of what you're trying to do. And then you can start to experiment a bit for yourself with what works for you and how to generate that spin on the ball. Jeff (22:30) Yeah, interesting. And now, Alois, the million dollar question, how important Alois (22:34) Yes, indeed. Jeff (22:36) is equipment? Like, would you begin with simple basic equipment or more expensive equipment and and when would you think about upgrading? Alois (22:47) Yeah. So this is this is. Often an issue, but because. Players often either. Get something that's too bad or too fast, so. Yes. Jeff (23:03) Mm, too bad or too fast. Okay. So too bad, what does that mean? Alois (23:07) So too bad means that you can't generate any. Spin on the ball with the racket you've got, and you can't. generate any bounce off the the record either. Yeah. So so Jeff (23:21) Mm. And like I found out when I went to the club, what I was saying before, Alois, is that that's just such an important part of getting better at table tennis, is is spin. So you you do need a racket where Alois (23:31) Yes. Jeff (23:31) you can generate spin. Alois (23:33) Yes. And at the opposite end is some players then go jump into, whoa, you know, this is good. This is spin. What's the most expensive racket I can get? And that's often too fast. So the ball's coming off the racket too fast. So it's difficult for them to just develop the feel and the touch of of what's happening with the ball because the ball's flying off their racket. Jeff (24:01) Mm. Alois (24:01) So really there's probably, you know, maybe three levels of equipment that you can work with. know, one is a beginner type racket, but it needs to, as you said, you know, just be able to, you know, we have had Jeff (24:17) Yes. Alois (24:18) something like this, the PingSkills Rook, which isn't very fast, but the important parts are that it's got some sponge underneath the rubber that the rubber surface is tacky enough to be able to generate some spin and there's enough bounce on the on the ball. So that's that's important to start off with. That's level one. Level two is to then just get maybe something that's a little bit faster that now you're getting a bit more value for your the strokes that you that you're able to do with the you know, pushing backspin, serving topspin. Jeff (25:02) So how do you know when to go from level one to level two? Alois (25:06) Difficult question, but if you're starting to play full strokes on both sides and you and you're still almost too consistent, then it's probably time to be able to step up a little bit with speed and spin. Yeah. Jeff (25:26) Gotcha. But then some of the top players in the world would even go to level three. Is that what you're talking about? Or not even top players in the world, just Alois (25:31) Yeah, exactly. Jeff (25:32) some good players. Alois (25:34) Yeah. And I think that level three is it's a it's a big level, you know, so there's some rubbers that are right at the top of the range and really fast and all that sort of stuff. I think you just need to find something within that range that is that suits you. Jeff (25:57) Yeah. And I guess by the time you get to that level you've got quite a lot of experience and you're probably capable of of making that decision. Alois (26:05) Yes, but I think a lot of players also jump from level two to level three equipment too quickly as well. and Jeff (26:13) Mm, okay. Okay. Alois (26:15) I mean, one is the speed and spin and control on the ball, but number two Jeff (26:20) Yep. Alois (26:21) is like, you're actually just throwing away money. Like you're just paying, you know, way overs for what you need and what you are going to benefit from. Jeff (26:34) And the other thing that surprises people that don't play table tennis is that these rubbers wear out quite quickly if you're playing a lot and so you've got to buy them again 'cause that they lose their grip after hitting the ball so many times. Alois (26:45) Yeah, exactly. and yeah, some of those some of those better rubbers are really quite low wearing, I guess. So yeah, I wear out quickly. That's that's the words. Jeff (26:58) So they they wear out pretty quickly. Yep. Nice. And then just briefly on what they call funny rubbers, like anti spin and long pimples, should begin to start with these. Alois (27:14) tend to stay away from it initially because I think it doesn't allow you to really understand spin and the effects of spin initially. So I think it's important to understand that first. Once you have a really good understanding of that, then you can start to think about, you know, does a long pimple or an anti-spin or a short pimple rubber suit your game better? Jeff (27:44) Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. Makes sense. All right, now, here we go, Alice. I'm gonna hit you up here. I want to know if you could give a beginner only five rules for the first year, what would they be? Alois (27:59) Five rules for the first year. One. Jeff (28:01) Yes, Alois (28:04) Enjoy your table tennis. Jeff (28:06) Love it. Alois (28:07) is is baseline, absolute non-negotiable. Two is give yourself lots of opportunity to see other players play. So whether that's joining a club, watching videos, immerse yourself in the game as much as you can. Number three is to just get out there and play as much as you can, as much as you enjoy. Really experience as many types of styles, games, hitting as you can, because that actual tactile experience of feeling and hitting against different people is going to really help you. number four, we're starting to stretch. Number four Jeff (29:00) Yep. Alois (29:01) is... Really making sure that you keep the freedom in your game. So keep the freedom in your game by in your training, giving yourself lots of decisions to to make during your training, if that's what you you're going to get into. so have less. single decision balls, more multiple decision balls. So. Jeff (29:37) Yeah, so don't just play to one spot all the time or know where the ball's going, have it Alois (29:40) Yeah. Yeah. Jeff (29:42) a bit more like maybe one or two here, one or two here, or even random, Alois (29:45) Yes. Jeff (29:46) just so you don't you don't know what's coming at certain Alois (29:49) Yeah. Yep. Jeff (29:50) points. Alois (29:51) That's right. And number five is go and play some tournaments. Jeff (29:57) Great. R really good advice. And it's interesting there, Alice, because of those things, you never really talked about focusing on a stroke or focusing on one particular thing. It was, you know, enjoying it, giving yourself freedom, all these other other things rather than focusing on like specifics for a beginner in their first Alois (30:18) Yes, absolutely. Jeff (30:19) year. Alois (30:19) Absolutely. Because because my feel is that if you do all of those things, you will be drawn to, what's he doing? What's she doing? What what are they doing? What what are they able to do? And how can I do that? And that Jeff (30:36) Mm. Alois (30:37) will draw you to the Ping Skills website or other or or other sources of information. You know, it's it's it'll draw you to asking the questions from your club mate. what are you doing there? How are you doing that serve? Jeff (30:52) Yeah. Alois (30:52) know, what type of spin are you putting on that? And you will be immersed in the game and you'll be immersed in the learning and the love of the sport. Jeff (31:03) Yeah. Excellent. Well, that's a great great way to finish up that segment. Now, Alois, this is the Ask the Coach Show. So I've actually gone back and got an old question because we're talking about what if you Alois (31:14) Go! Jeff (31:15) forgot everything you knew? And we've talked about this a little bit, but it's it's a question here from from Lachie and he said, Which stroke should I learn first? And he asked it On the Ask the Coach section at the PingSkills website, and you can head over to pingskills.com right now and ask your own question. We'd love to hear from you. But he said, I'm new to the game. I'm a pretty good player. I need to know some easy shots I should start off with and then gradually play more shots. He says, I'm good at side spin, but I have to work on top spin, side spin, pace shots, and how should I learn? And I actually answered this one, Alois, and I said, start Alois (31:48) Yes. Jeff (31:50) with the four basic strokes. I said, start with a four hand counter hit. Alois (31:52) Yep. Yep. Jeff (31:53) The backhand count hit, the forehand push, the backhand push, and then after that learn the forehand topspin and then the backhand topspin. So it's kind of what you were saying 15 years ago was very much learn this stroke, learn this stroke, learn this stroke, learn this stroke. So now Alois (32:07) Yes. Jeff (32:08) how you know, correct that. How should I have answered that? Or how would you answer that today? Alois (32:15) I think it's still OK to be drawn to wanting to know how to hit those strokes. But it's. Yeah. No. Jeff (32:22) Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, that's important, isn't it? You can't just throw that away and go I'm not gonna worry about technique at all. Alois (32:28) Yeah, but it's about how do you how do you play those strokes together? I think all. Jeff (32:35) Mm. So when that when someone says how do I learn what sho stroke should I learn first, maybe the answer is will you learn them together? Alois (32:43) Yeah, yeah, I think, I think so. I I think trying to learn them together is good together. Meaning, I mean, it doesn't mean that I have to start by doing, you know, the forehand topspin, backhand topspin, but maybe, you know, understand the forehand, understand the backhand. How do you transition between the forehand and the backhand? And how do you, how do you play those strokes together? How do you, How do you change between a push on a forehand and a push on a backhand? Yeah. So I think the quicker you can link your strokes together, the easier your game is going to become. Jeff (33:23) Yep. Yep. Makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Good. And then I've got another older question also from a long time ago. And it was like, first bat. It's like, Jeromy asked. I'm looking to get my first real bat, not a pre assembled one maybe, but he said, I've been looking and saw the Primorac bat, and he thought about getting like Tenergy Butterfly rubber with it. But he said, I don't know if I'm anywhere near good enough for the speed yet. and you said I I wouldn't get Tenergy in my first bat, I think it'd be too fast. Go for something a bit more controlled. So yeah, it you talked about this a little bit before about the different levels, but Alois (33:59) Yeah. Yeah. Jeff (34:03) yeah, what is an ideal first bat? Alois (34:07) Yeah. So I think a lot of the time it's those pre-made bats, know, bats that come already with the rubber on because they often good enough as long as you you you hunt around a little bit. And again, I'll go back to what we were talking about before. Get down to a club and just have Jeff (34:26) Mm. Alois (34:27) a have a look at what other players are doing and using and often clubs sell equipment there as well. And they'll be able to give you some some real experience if you if you're looking on the Internet and just you know, that one looks good. And it's it's almost impossible to tell if you don't have experience in table tennis on what is a good beginner bat. Jeff (34:52) Yeah. Alois (34:53) So, so I mean, you don't want the bat too fast and you don't want to have a bat that doesn't generate spin. Having a look at that on a picture doesn't tell me anything, you know, so Jeff (35:06) Yeah. Alois (35:08) that, that could be, that could be a good bat or a bad bat or, or, or anything, you know, so it's, It's more about trusting the person that you're talking to. know, and that's what I say, you know, if you can get to a club, great. And just try to have a hit with a few players, rackets and just see, that one feels good. that is too fast. You know, if you Jeff (35:35) Yeah, yeah. Alois (35:36) walk, if you walk, if you starting out and wanting to play with a rubber like a Tenergy, you're one of those faster rubbers. It's just too much. It's just too fast. It's yeah, you it'll be really difficult to to understand and learn the game. Jeff (35:50) Yeah. I remember the first time I went to a club, I just took my bat that was just from I don't know, got with the table, it had some pimples on it, couldn't get any spin. but then yeah, when you go down there you see what other people are using. And I think maybe some of my first rubbers, Alois (36:06) So. Jeff (36:06) 'cause they're not cheap, I think some better players had like finish off with their rubbers. So I think I started just gluing them onto my bats and stuff at at first. but yeah, yeah, Alois (36:16) And that's. Jeff (36:17) going to a club gives you that kind of exposure to different types of Alois (36:21) Yeah, Jeff (36:21) bats. Alois (36:22) yeah, absolutely. And that's a great way to actually start out. know, just get some secondhand rubber if you can source it from your friends or other people at the club because they're still really good for a beginner. So, yeah, good way to do it. Jeff (36:38) Y Yep, indeed. And a quick plug, Alois, we've just got a video choosing a racket as a beginner up on the PingSkills website. So head on over, take a look. Alois (36:49) Perfect, what a good video that'll be. Jeff (36:51) Absolutely. Yes. Well, I think that's a great place to leave it. thank you everyone for listening so far. leave a comment somewhere, let us know what you're thinking of our season two and if there's any suggestions you have about our podcast. But it's always lovely to have you listening. And of course, thank you, Alois. Alois (37:10) Thanks Jeff and thank you for all the comments from the first show. I did notice Jeff that no one actually asked for the joke of the day. did your mum say? Jeff (37:21) That is not true, Alois. I got a special email saying the joke of the day. So I think next Not my mum. I'm gonna bring the email up next time and I'm gonna tell a joke next time because people want it, let me tell you. It's coming next episode, I promise. Alois (37:41) Right, right. Jeff (37:44) Alright. Thanks everyone. Thanks for listening, and we will see you next time. Bye. Alois (37:50) Bye.