Ranking in group tournament

Table Tennis Rules

Last updated 6 months ago

AK 47

AK 47 Asked 1 year ago

Hi coach!

In our mini club we organize mini amateur tournaments every week. There are 10 players. We all play each other. There is no problem in ranking players who have different number of wins. But how to rank players with same number of wins?

How to rank players in a group tournament? 

For example, in the tournament marvellous 12,  why Lin Gaoyuan's result is better than Xu Xin's? 

How is "Pts" calculated?

Are there many different local rules of rating in such group tournaments?

Pos Team Pld W L GW GL Pts Qualification
1 Fan Zhendong 11 11 0 33 11 22 2019 World Championships
2 Liang Jingkun 11 8 3 28 18 19
3 Xue Fei 11 6 5 25 23 17  
4 Lin Gaoyuan 11 5 6 26 25 16  
5 Xu Xin 11 5 6 21 20 16  
6 Yu Ziyang 11 5 6 20 23 16  
7 Fang Bo 11 5 6 21 24 16  
8 Yan An 11 5 6 21 24 16  
9 Zhou Kai 11 5 6 18 25 16  
10 Wang Chuqin 11 4 7 17 23 15  
11 Xu Chenhao 11 4 7 20 27 15  
12 Zhao Zihao 11 3 8 19 26 14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Marvellous_12#Format_and_Participants


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario Answered 1 year ago

Hi Ardak,

If players are even on the number of wins then it goes to the matches played only between those players.

In this situation we would need to look at the results only between 6 players on 5 wins.  Then as each player's place is determined their results are discarded and again it goes to a count back between the players that are tied.  Here is the rule which will explain it a bit clearer I hope.

  1. 3.7.5.2  If two or more members of the group have gained the same number of match points their relative positions shall be determined only by the results of the matches between them, by considering successively the numbers of match points, the ratios of wins to losses first in individual matches (for a team event), games and points, as far as is necessary to resolve the order.

  2. 3.7.5.3  If at any step in the calculations the positions of one or more members of the group have been determined while the others are still equal, the results of matches in which those members took part shall be excluded from any further calculations needed to resolve the equalities in accordance with the procedure of 3.7.5.1 and 3.7.5.2.


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AK 47

AK 47 Posted 1 year ago

Everything is so clear! It was very important for us. Thank you very much coach! 

 


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 1 year ago

No problems Ardak.


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 1 year ago

Hi coach!

How to rank 5 players in a group if they have equal number of wins. And their  win/lose ratios between only these 5 players are:

player 1: 10/8

player 2: 10/10

player 3: 9/9

player 4: 8/8

player 5: 6/8

 

I know that player 1 has the best result, player 5 has the worst result. How to continue ranking players 2,3 and 4?

Must we look at their win/lose ratios of only between these 3 players?

Or must we see their points in each set?

 

 


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 1 year ago

Hi,

Yes you would go to the result only between the 3 players involved.  Have a look at the wording of the rules:

  1. 3.7.5.1  In a group, or "round robin", competition, all members of the group shall compete against each other and shall gain 2 match points for a win, 1 for a loss in a played match and 0 for a loss in an unplayed or unfinished match; the ranking order shall be determined primarily by the number of match points gained. If a player is defaulted after the completion of a match for any reason, he or she shall be deemed to have lost the match, which shall subsequently be recorded as a loss in an unplayed match.

  2. 3.7.5.2  If two or more members of the group have gained the same number of match points their relative positions shall be determined only by the results of the matches between them, by considering successively the numbers of match points, the ratios of wins to losses first in individual matches (for a team event), games and points, as far as is necessary to resolve the order.

  3. 3.7.5.3  If at any step in the calculations the positions of one or more members of the group have been determined while the others are still equal, the results of matches in which those members took part shall be excluded from any further calculations needed to resolve the equalities in accordance with the procedure of 3.7.5.1 and 3.7.5.2.

  4. 3.7.5.4  If it is not possible to resolve equalities by means of the procedure specified in 3.7.5.1-3 the relative positions shall be decided by lot.


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 1 year ago

Thank you coach!

Language of this rules is not easy for me. To be sure that I understand you correct, I want to show my calculations:

  1 2 3 4 5      
1   2:3 3:2 0:3 3:2   8/10 5th place
2 3:2   1:3 3:1 2:3   9/9  
3 2:3 3:1   3:1 2:3   10/8 1st place
4 3:0 1:3 1:3   3:2   8/8  
5 2:3 3:2 3:2 2:3     10/10  

 

Then I consider only players 2,4,5.

 

  2 4 5          
2   3:1 2:3       5/4 2nd place
4 1:3   3:2       4/5 4th place
5 3:2 2:3         5/5 3rd place

 

Did I understand you correct? We don't need to look at the points of each set, am I right?


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 1 year ago

Hi,

Yes your calculations look correct going just on the results between the 3 players.


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 1 year ago

Initially, all of 5 players have 2 loses and 2 wins.


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 1 year ago

I hope you took into account the fact that Initially, all of 5 players have 2 loses and 2 wins.


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 1 year ago

Yes initially that is how you work out the 1st and 5th place.


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 1 year ago

Thank you very much, coach! 


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 6 months ago

Hi, coach!

From the rules you sent  above I can't rank the the group players in a tournament. Translated to my own language by Google translate, still can't.

Among 7 players, 4 of them have the same number of wins.

Then I consider only matches between those 4 players: two of them have 2 wins 1 lose, other two have 1 win 2 loses. 

What is the next step? 

Must I take in account 2 wins 1 lose? And rank these two players above other two players who have 1 win 2 loses automatically?

Or fisrt I need to compare the ratios of W/L of sets of all four players? 

 

 

 

 


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 6 months ago

Among 7 players, Players A, B, C, D have the same number of wins. Now we consider only the results of the players A, B, C, D only between them.

If first we calculate W/L ratios of all four players, then, A has a ratio 5/2, B has 4/3, C has 3/4, D has 2/4. Then Ranking will be in the order: A, B, C, D. 

 

If first we look at their wins beteween these four players, A and B has 2 wins 1 lose, C and D has 1 win 2 lose. So, ranks of A and B are higher than, C and D. Then we look at the games between A and B, then between C and D. B won A. C won D. Ranking will be in the order: B, A, C, D. 

 

Which is right? 

 


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 6 months ago

Hi Ardak,

You take into account the 2 wins and 1 loss first.  Now A and B are equal.  Then you decide between these two players which is best.  You just go on the result between those two players.  Therefore the order is B, A because B beat A.  Then C, D are also equal on wins so we need to decide the order between them.  Because C beat D C finishes 3rd and D finishes 4th.


AK 47

AK 47 Posted 6 months ago

Thank you, coach!

We usually compare ratios when 3 players have same number of wins. This confused me. I thought maybe we directly compare ratios too when 4 players have same wins. Thank you again! 



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