The Greatest Male?
Photo courtesy of ITTF
Who is the Greatest Male Table Tennis player of all time?
While impossible to answer this categorically, the question will always be posed. For me, it is out of Guo Yue Hua, Kong Ling Hui, Chuang Tse-Tung, Wang Liqin and of course Jan-Ove Waldner?
Chuang Tse-Tungs’ 3 World Singles titles in a row from ’61 to ’65 must put him up there in the race. No chance for him to win Olympic or World Cup titles.
Guo Yuehua’s reaching the final of the World Championships for 4 Worlds in a row makes him a serious contender. He was the winner in ’81 and ’83 and runner-up in ’77 and ’79. He also won 2 World Cups in ’80 and ’82. Again, he lived at the wrong time for Olympic and World Cup opportunities.
Kong Ling Hui’s won World Championship Gold in ’95 and Silver in 2001, Olympic Gold in 2000 and World Cup Gold in ’95.
Wang Liqin has already secured 3 Worlds Championships, in 2001, 2005 and 2007. However, you would think that there is more opportunity for him to rack up a few more titles before he is finished. The Beijing Olympics looms large for him.
Waldner has 2 World Championships in ’89 and ’97 and Olympic Gold in 92 with a Silver in 2000 and the memorable 4th in 2004, and his World Cup in ’90. I think what is undoubted is that he has the longevity award all sewn up.
Let us know your thoughts…
Jeff Plumb
commented on August 17th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
For me, it has to be Waldner. He was also the runner-up in the World Championships of 1987 and 1991. And as mentioned in the blog, the fact that he remained near the top of the World Rankings for such a long time makes him my pick.
Mattias
commented on August 20th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Waldner – the evergreen tree.
This clip is just from his “early” career:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q9kdIEHwo&mode=related&search=
His most impressive title for me is the 97′ world champs (not in the movie clip above) where he didn’t loose a single game throughout the whole tournament, and that at an age when everyone thought his best days were years behind.
Mattias
commented on August 20th, 2007 at 12:06 am
It shouldn’t be forgotten that he led Sweden to at least 4 team world champs titles as well (although Jorgen Persson also played a crucial role in that).
Name Required
commented on August 21st, 2007 at 11:25 am
I tend to agree about Waldner. He has definitely changed the table tennis sports. Right up there would also be his coach Stellan Bengtsson, who still holds the title of the youngest to win the World Championship (Singles nonetheless) title at the age of 18. Not only that, but he also developed 2 future World Champions Waldner and Persson. To be fair, we probably should divide the title into 3 eras, the Pre-speed Glue era (1960-1980), the Speed Glue era (1980-2000), and the Big 40 era (for 40mm balls).
George Braighwaite
commented on December 10th, 2007 at 6:20 am
Hello All,
After a careful study of the great names mentioned I would have to conclude that Waldner truly represents being the greatest of all time. There is one more thing that should be taken into consideration and that is HIS VERSATILITY. He was never and is not a one dimentional player BUT a player who even during one point has demonstrated all varieties of stroke play including the LOB, CHOP, SPIN, DROP SHOT, TABLE TOUCH GAME,AWAY FROM THE TABLE GAME AND SERVES.
What more can we ask for!
George
Richard Lee
commented on April 10th, 2008 at 11:00 am
While all those mentioned are certainly contenders for the greatest of all time,if such a subjective debate can ever be quantified in any way,what about Victor Barna (5 world singles) and ,in particular,Richard Bergmann (4 World singles).He (Bergmann) won 2 pre-world 2 and 2 post world war 2 so it is reasonable to assume he would have won some of the 7 world champs not contested from 1939/40 through to 1945/46.
How to give weightings to the fact that worlds were contested annually until 1956/57 and thence every 2 years with the Olympic title added from 1988 been a further complication in assessing the subject will always mean it is doubtful will general consensus will ever be reached in comparing eras.
A book on Jan-Ove Waldner (‘When the feeling Decides’) printed a the results of a poll on this subject conducted between 10 sports journalists.Each journalist gave their top 5 with 1 mark/point being awarded for 1st,2 for 2nd etc.
Waldner was top on every list with a perfect score of 10;Guo was 2nd with 25 ‘marks’;Chuang 3rd with 35;Jiang Jialing 4th with 61 and Ichiro Ogimura 5th with 62 points-Barna with 6th
It must be mentioned that of the 10 journalists polled 8 were Swedish so how much notice can be taken of it is arguable.-And of course since them Wang Liquin has won 3 worlds.An Olympic singles title could see a justifiable case for him been the all-time number1.
Mark Smythe
commented on April 17th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I believe it’s too subjective but always a good debate.
As Richard pointed out (results wise), the World C’ships have changed from deing annual, to biannually to not contested during WW2, so it makes it impossible to get an ACCURATE guide.
Also, the Chinese system doesn’t allow its players to have the longevity such as the Waldner’s, Persson’s etc, etc, so (again) it makes the task actually impossible to assess.
Richard Lee
commented on April 17th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
While it has has been pointed this cannot be quantified in any manner,Guo Yuehua showed what a great player he was when 4 years after retiring he made a comback to play for SSV Reulingen in The German Bundesliga for a few years .During that time he beat both Waldner (twice without losing) and Persson (in 1991 in an international tournament ) when those 2 players were dominating the international scene.
In his book ,Waldner said the player he would most have liked to play in a dream match was Guo-saying,’unfortunately we never had the opportunity to meet in an important match’ which is as high a praise as one could get.-obviously Waldner didn’t see the matches he lost to Guo in as important
Another interesting,but ultimately fatuous topic which has often been debated is ‘who is the best player never to have won the men’s singles at the world championship’.
Bellak,Ehrlich and LiFurong all were all runner-up 3 times each which would have to make them contenders for this imaginary title which I am sure none of them would have wanted.Also Ivan Andreadis’s name always crops up in this discussion -twice runner-up and 6 times losing semi-finalist,while from more recent times Kjell Johansson ,Tibor Klampar, Dragutin Surbek,Ling Geliang and CaiZhenhua’s names are sometimes mentioned-though as only CaiZhenhua (twice) and Johannsson (once ) made the final it is a bit difficult to see how they rank with the other player’s mentioned.
Current players can’t really be considered in this discussion until their careers are finished but MaLin seems to be putting himself into contention.
Perhaps I would go for LiFurong as his 3 runner’s -up were consecutive and done when the frequency of the World championships had changed to every 2 years.
Phil Boyle
commented on April 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
The discusssion is moot, since so many Chinese matches have been manufactured. Zhou Lan Sun told me he had to lose he 65 worlds semi to Chuang, because his (Zhou’s) father had worked for the Nationalists in the fight against the communists.
I personally think Wang Liqin is the ultimate player. Was a miracle he lost that match to Schlager, otherwise he’d be 4 times champ.
PB
Richard Lee
commented on April 23rd, 2008 at 7:46 am
Zhou Lan Sun lost to Li Furong in the semis at the 1965 World Championships,not Zhuang Zedong -Zhuang beat Eberhard Scholer in the other semi.
The accusation that many matches between Chinese players are fixed has been an on-going debate ever since the 1960s.
It was contended by many people that Lifurong had to lose to Zhuang in the 3 finals they played in 1961,63 and 65.- for the same reson as given in the last post-Li came from a wealthy background unlike Zhuang ,whose father was a physician.
However many other respected international players,-Denis Neale and Alan Tomlinson to name two- contended that Zhuang was the better player mainly because of his superior backhand.
Li himself maintained the rumours of match-fixing were unfounded,saying the 2 were more or less equal and sometimes Zhuang won and sometimes he (Li) won-it all depended on the day and who took better advantage of their psychologigal abilities and used their strong points better-indicating that perhaps in the biggest matches Zhuang was mentally stronger.
Lastly with all the accusations of match-fixing between the Chinese it cannot be assumed that the player who ‘had’ to lose-if indeed the rumours were founded-would have won wwhich seems to be the common assumption.
Mathias
commented on August 23rd, 2008 at 7:31 am
Waldner, and it isn’t even close. His versatiliti has already been mentioned. More importantly, to be “the greatest” you need more than statistics. In addition to titles, Waldner has the charisma, the ego etc. of a S u p e r s t a r. (And he’s got the game to back it). Don’t know if the average Joe-TT would appreciate this quality, but to anyone not on glue surely does.
vinay
commented on January 29th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Hi,After all of your comments i conclude that waldner(alll times table tennis champion,michael jordan of TT, Lao wa in china, Mozart of TT) is always a great player. He has the different strokes in his belt. He invented new strokes which were not in TT book, He is an innovator of the strokes. This made him in the top of the world for almost 24years.
krish
commented on February 2nd, 2009 at 6:40 am
hi frenz ma lin is definetely got to be right up there, besides if wang liqin is there so can ma lin. he has got some great stats to back him!!
Filip
commented on March 31st, 2009 at 8:49 am
Indeed there was a lot of good players but there’s only one gene. J.O.
baptistpreach
commented on April 17th, 2009 at 2:31 am
I would have to say that the Chinese have already answered the Q. They call him Lao Wa – I think that means Great One. Maybe I’m biased, but whenever someone breaks through the glass ceiling, that aura propels them to the top – Jackie Robinson, Bobby Fischer, and Jan Ove
Thanks for reminding us that the non Asians CAN do it… If only TT caught on here, I’m sure the talent is in America we just haven’t found it yet, cause he was to busy playing tennis, or golf
goutham srinivas
commented on November 7th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
For me, waldner is the greatest ever player. he is the only
player who possesses each and every shot in table tennis
TOMMY
commented on December 26th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Wow, a retiree can beat waldner. That must be no ordinary retiree. Oops, I am sorry, that was Guo, the 2nd best player in the world, after Waldner of course.
Brian Halliday
commented on February 19th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
I have seen at first hand all the world’s best players since the 2nd World War. Without any shadow of doubt in my mind Chuang Tse Tung was easily the best I have ever seen. I was fortunate to be present in Ljubliana when he beat Li Fu Jung in quite merciless fassion. I have seen Waldner on many occasions, including his 97 triumph in Birmingham, but he still does not compare. Chuang was just an incrible table tennis machine. I know many of todays top stars rate Waldner as the best and make out very strong cases on his behalf, however they did not see Chuang at first hand and believe me he was awesome.
Alois Rosario
commented on February 23rd, 2010 at 7:09 am
That certainly was another golden era in Chinese table tennis. I was lucky enough to be coached by the late Zhou Lan Sun who made the semi finals and lost to Li Fu Jung.
Taharka Carrington
commented on May 28th, 2010 at 2:50 am
I have never seen Chaung Tse Tung play,but of the players I have seen, Jan-ove Waldner is definitely the best.If you are matching titles he has two world title and a olympics. He have also made the world finals four times and the Olympic final twice.I am only fifteen years of age, but from my unstanding of table tennis back then It wasn’t dominated by European players. And in my opinion Waldner is the first European Table Tennis player To cut down on Chinese dominance for a long time.He is also seen as the morzart of table tennis because at the age of45 he is still a formidable opponent.
usman
commented on June 10th, 2010 at 3:12 am
I would prefer more JAN OVE WALDNER(from the list). But personally with no offense, the best player i have ever seen is Andrezej Grubba. Though an old player very mature. Championships does not matter. luck is more than enough to take you through the championship. But Grubba’s play a quite simple but very simple. Evryone have a look at his game through youtube. I want the comment of the coach ALois on him.
unknown
commented on August 1st, 2010 at 12:31 pm
waldner is easily the best
Piyu
commented on September 8th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Wang Liqin winner of over 20 ITTF Pro Tour titles which is more than double any other top players including Waldner. Waldner has the longevity title sewn up as stated but he only won four major Grand Slams compared to say Ma Lin (five) and Kong LingHui (four). Waldner is one of the greatest bu he has a losing head to head record against almost all the top Chinese players and when he won the 1997 world championship without losing a set, he did not have to face a single Chinese player. In fact, in all his four Grand Slams, he hardly faced any top Chinese player. Another great player to watch is Samsonov winner of 3 World Cups and more to come!
Piyu
commented on September 16th, 2010 at 2:54 am
Waldner the greatest of all time or an all time great?
From 1998 to 2005 year of his retirement in almost 50 international tournaments, Waldner did not win any international tournaments – ZILCH OR ZERO AND STATISTICALLY YOU CALL THAT G.O.A.T.
HE DOES NOT HAVE THE LONGEVITY AWARD SEWN UP AS JORGEN PERSSON HAS BEATEN HIM TO THAT AND SAMSONOV MAY SURPASSED BOTH PERSSON AND WALDNER IN TERMS OF LONGEVITY, ONLY TIME WILL TELL
gerrie roestorrf
commented on February 23rd, 2011 at 6:27 pm
i gerrie roestorf was the greatest player of all time
due to apartheid in SA u did not see me in action
and old Waldner had no answer to my chop
Jeff Plumb
commented on March 1st, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Good to hear Gerrie.
JOE SILVA
commented on March 17th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
i agree gerrie roestorff was the greatest. i saw him chop peter karlsson to pieces and if south africa were allowed to play international table tennis he would have chopped waldner and persson to pieces.
Harry Smith
commented on March 17th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
yes this gerrie guy was good very good if not the greatest that never was. he would have taken at least 2 world champs and maybe a gold medal at the olympics.u people that know nothing about table tennis will be asking who is this guy but actually you are not table tennis experts. my ranking is as follows:
1. gerrie roestorff
2. kong linghui
3. jan-ove waldner
4. guo yuehua
5. viktor bahna
6. liu guoliang
7. jiang jialiang
8. timo boll
9. zhuang zedong
10.ma lin
11.yoo nam kyu
12.xie saike
13. jorgen persson
Tony Fittle
commented on March 17th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
best player ever was gerrie roestorff or as he was known ” the gerrie” what a talent he was chopped peter karlsson to pieces 21-5 21-11. no player has beaqten karlsson with scores like that. I quote peter karlsson after his defeat “who is this guy”
Charles Woody
commented on May 11th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Yes Gerrie was the greatest followed by many Chinese players.Waldner never did much and only won a few tournaments. He loses to balookers like Atanda Musa who crushed him in the World Cup. Gerrie would have crushed him if given the chancevwith his severe chop never seen before since the days of Ding Song.
Atanda Mussa
commented on May 11th, 2011 at 10:34 am
Yeah mate I played this Gerrie chap in the 80′s when South Africa was banned and he beat me easily. I kept quiet as it was embarrassing losing to a nobody. This was 2 weeks after I beat Waldner so this Gerrie guy was top ten material.
Joe Silva
commented on May 11th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Never heard of this Gerrie guy but Kong Linghui was the greatest followed by Liu Guoliang then Gou Yuehua then Zhuang Zhedong then Jiang Jialiang then Wang Huiyuan then Xie Saike then Wang Liquin then Ma Lin then Wang Hao then Ma Wenge then Fan Changmao then Cai Zhenhua then Chen Zhibin then Chen Longcan then Lin Zhigang then Xie Chaojie then Xu Zhengcai then Liang Ge Liang then Yu Shentong then Ding Song then Chen Zhenhua then Ma Long then Xu Xin then Zhang Jike then Chen Yuke then Wang Hao2
Matt Tony
commented on May 11th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Xu Xin will be the greatest.He destroyed Timo Boll in a recent final playing table tennis from another planet.
Tony Man
commented on May 11th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Yoo Nam Kyu was the greatest then Kim Ki Taek then Kim Wan then Park Lee Hee then Kang Hee Chan then Kim Song Hui then Li Gun Sang
John Cook
commented on May 11th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Des Douglas was the most talented.Talent order below:
Andrezj Grubba
Des Douglas
Jacques Secretin
Magnus Molin
Gerrie Roestorff
Lorenzo Nannoni
Timo Boll
Dimitrij Mazunov
Steffen Fetzner
Patrick Chila
Eric Boggan
Atanda Musa
Sherif El Sakat
Ashraf Helmy
Ashraf Sobdy
Suly Olayeye
Seike Iseki
Lee Chul Seung
Kim Song Hui
Leszek Kucharski
Istvan Jonyer
Gabor Gergely
Dragutin Surbek
Zoran Primorac
No Chinese players as they are all machines and do not have much talent.
Joe Plumb
commented on May 13th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
Gerrie R as he was know as was number one.
Johnny Simon
commented on May 15th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
Gerrie Roestorff number one then Ma Lin Ma Wenge Kong LinghuiWang Hao Wang Tao Wang Liquin
Yen Sing
commented on May 17th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Gerrie was my hero what a Dutchman.
Johan Smit
commented on June 4th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
yes he was good so good mr jerry roestorff
Anton Beck
commented on June 4th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
1. Gou Yuehua
2. Zhuang Zhedong
3. Liu Guoliang
4. Kong Linghui
5. Chen Longcan
6. Jan-Ove Waldner
7. Wang Liquin
8. Ma Lin
9. Andrez Gry=ubba
10. Gerrie Roestorff
Kleintjie Klipppies
commented on June 4th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
he was the greatest ever Seiko Iseki
Seiji Ono Koji Matsushita Mitsuru Kohno
Flip Coetzee
commented on June 5th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Ja Gerry was great maybe the greatest that never was my mate.
1st Tibor Klampar
2nd Istvan Jonyer
3r Gabor Gergely
4th Milan Orlowski
5th Anton Stepanic
6th Dragutin Surbek
7th Gerrie Roestorff
8th Eberhard Scholer
9th Kong Linghui
10th Gou Yuehua
11th Zhuang Zhedong
12th Timo Boll
13th Ma Lin
14th Teng Yi
15th Chen Longcan
16th Jiang Jialiang
17th Wang Huiyuan
18th Fan Changmao
19th Chen Zhibin
20th Liu Guozheng
21th Liu Guoliang
22 Yu Shentong
23 Cai Zhenhua
24 Shi Zihao
25 Ma Wenge
26 Wang Liquin
27 Johnny Huang
28 Kim Song Hui
29 Li Gun Sang
30 Andrezj Grubba
31 Leszek Kucharski
32 Jan-Ove Waldner
33 Stellan Bengsston
34 Kjell Johannson
35 Jorgen Persson
36 Peter Karlsson
37 Mikael Appelgren
38 Bo Persson
39 Magnus Molin
40 Kayode Kadiri
41 Ulf Carlsson
42 Thomas Von Scheele
43 Erik Lindh
44 Hans Alser
45 Andrei Mazunov
46 Dmitrij Mazunov
47 Seiji Ono
48 Mitsuru Kohno
49 Seiko Iseki
40 Wei Quingguang
jan van der berg
commented on June 18th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
The Gerrie was the greatest after Appelgren the most entertaining players was Appelgren/Kalinikos Kreanga/Chen Xinhua/Gerrie Roestorff/Andrezj Grubba/ Li Gun Sang/ Jacques Secretin/ Chetan Baboor/ Liu Guoliang
John Scott
commented on November 15th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
The best players are the 3 Mamas. Ma Long, Ma Lin, Ma Wenge
Anton
commented on January 19th, 2012 at 12:24 am
Jan Ove Waldner is the greatest of all time.
AJKING
commented on January 31st, 2012 at 5:26 am
based on medals, world champions, world cups etc here is my list ( not in order)
Ma lin
Wang hao
wang liqin
Kong Linghui
Jan-Ove Waldner
Jörgen Persson
Liu Guoliang
Gou Yuehua
jiang Jialiang
Viktor Barna
Mitsuru Kohno
Ma long will be easily on the top 5. he is only 23yrs old and he has already got 21 major prizes.
Ma long is the best!!!! <3
AJKING
commented on February 11th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
And also i dont think jan-ove waldner is the greatest of all time he is a top 10 maybe top 5 but not the greatest. Wang liquin and ma lin have got more world champion ships and statistically he wasnt the most greatest. You cant call a tt player ‘the greatest’ if the player isnt statistically superb aswell. Viktor barna probably the greatest of all time who has beaten his record 22 world titles?
Future greatest Ma Long. When he is on form he makes all the top players he plays against look like amateurs! MA LONG FTW! CHOOOOOOOO
Liu Guoliang
commented on April 19th, 2012 at 6:17 am
Chinese player are very fast, very strongest, very good, but personaly i think the best table tennis player of all time is one: Jan-Ove Waldner.
Regards.
Liu Guoliang
Kip Yat
commented on June 1st, 2012 at 9:33 pm
The best player of the last decade was Ma Lin. He is now old and over the hill and losing to everybody. His style is the most unique of all time?
Reynel
commented on November 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Master J.O Waldner then Mozart in Table Tennis
I wish i could be like him haha
Alan
commented on November 30th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
The greatest will be Zhang Jike then maybe Kim Min Seok
Pera
commented on December 23rd, 2012 at 7:48 am
Jan-Ove Waldner.
Paul
commented on March 27th, 2013 at 7:57 pm
bohumil vana was the greatest player ever
zhuang zhedong and li furong were light years ahead of their times also